Er…that’s all a lie. If they were so concerned about Christian social ideals, why did they commit so much murder, which goes against Christian ideals?

Goes against what YOU might think those ideals are, perhaps.

And again, you’re welcome to argue that there is some “true” Christianity that the Nazis distorted and mangled. I won’t disagree with you, even though it isn’t clear to me, nor does it matter, what the “true” version would be. But arguing that the Nazis did not see themselves as good Christians, let alone were not influenced by Christianity, is just absurd.

Look

I think that was all an act to gain power, and what are these contradicting quotes?

I noted one here. Again, it’s possible that some Nazis played at Christianity to gain power, though it’s clear that many were sincere, and Hitler was at least at the beginning.

None of that changes the fact that Christianity, as understood by the people of that time, was a key influence in Nazi Germany.

Seriously: just get a copy of On the Jews and their Lies by no less than Martin Luther and try to tell me that there’s no connection. Or read through Mein Kampf and see exactly what it is that Hitler sees himself and his ideals as being based on.

Again, you’re missing the point if you think I’m trying to pin the Holocaust on Christianity. Christians today do not believe what Nazi Christians believed, and are not responsible for it. But the idea that Christian attitudes towards homosexuals played no role is just silly.

Yes, but because of their sexuality, or because they were suspected Ernst Rohm supporters?

Because of their sexuality. The idea that homosexuals were all Rohm supporters, or that homosexuals were persecuted just as some sort of ongoing neverending vendetta against Rohm is pure nonsense.

That’s what real Christians as opposed to the Nazi pretenders would do, and that’s because homosexual acts (but not homosexuality itself) are considered a crime in Christian theology. I’m not justifying it though, as Christ also preached forgiveness.

Are you justifying it or not? Are the people who exacted so much pointless and untold suffering on homosexuals “real” Christians, or not?

You try to defend Christianity from this idea, but that’s not the point at all. All that matters here is what Hitler thought and justified his actions with, and his understanding of Christianity was indeed a major player in this, whether his understanding of Christianity was theologically right or wrong, and regardless of how his ideas about Christianity developed later (Ideaman for some reason thinks a valid picture of Hitler the Nazis consists only of later claims, ignoring all the contradicting ones that celebrate Christianity)

And I still don’t get people’s bizarre belief that he didn’t or hadn’t any reason to hate homosexuals. Homosexuals were put in camps and put to death in Nazi Germany. The Nazis had all sorts of rationales for why they were as bad as any other suspect group: they were called deviants, did not fit in with Christian social ideals that the Nazis claimed to embody, and so on. In fact, it’s worse in their case: at least when the allies liberated Nazi Germany, they let Jews and gypsies and so forth out of the camps. Many homosexuals were basically made to stay there.

“National Socialism and religion cannot exist together….
“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity….
“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.” (p 6 & 7)

14th October, 1941, midday

“The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity….
“Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity…. And that’s why someday its structure will collapse….
“…the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little….
“Christianity the liar….
“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.” (p 49-52)

homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

19th October, 1941, night

“The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.”
The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity … The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.

I’ll make these ****ed parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews.
[Quoted from Hitler's "Table Talks" with Bormann,
in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny by Allan Bullock.]

infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-hitler.html

Maybe, but consider this: I have gotten smeared for it, and it was considered okay.

Uh, by who? And how is this relevant to anything?

But smear a homosexual and you are considered a gay-basher.

Yes, and you should be considered a gay basher. So?

I mean, quite frankly, I don’t see any other reason why Hitler, who despised Jews and Christians would persecute homosexuals.

Hitler despised Jews, but he and the Nazis considered themselves a Christian movement, at least for the bulk of their reign. Towards the end, Hitler and some of his top partners in crime decided that Christian churches were in their way to absolute power, but he never gave up the general prejudices that he ascribed to Christianity.

And honestly, you don’t see any reason why he would persecute homosexuals? That’s just sort of, uh, weird.