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	<title>Comments on: Finally: My Own Expelled Review Extravaganza</title>
	<atom:link href="http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/</link>
	<description>Science, Skepticism, and Silly.  Critics welcome.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
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		<title>By: Hugo</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3504</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 03:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3504</guid>
		<description>Yunno, Bad, in grad school they drummed it into us that a scholar was supposed to spend years pondering a thing very deeply---without developing any very strong opinions about it!  It seems so ludicrous now, all these years later.   Gawd, how ludicrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yunno, Bad, in grad school they drummed it into us that a scholar was supposed to spend years pondering a thing very deeply&#8212;without developing any very strong opinions about it!  It seems so ludicrous now, all these years later.   Gawd, how ludicrous.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3458</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3458</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure what you mean by "unbiased."  I'm most certainly biased in that I've been arguing against the claims and accusations made in the film for years and have lots and lots of opinions.  But that's quite irrelevant to the matter of whether my specific observations and criticisms hold water or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you mean by &#8220;unbiased.&#8221;  I&#8217;m most certainly biased in that I&#8217;ve been arguing against the claims and accusations made in the film for years and have lots and lots of opinions.  But that&#8217;s quite irrelevant to the matter of whether my specific observations and criticisms hold water or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Daron Lawing</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3457</link>
		<dc:creator>Daron Lawing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 17:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3457</guid>
		<description>It's safe to assume that you are an unbiased reviewer, yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s safe to assume that you are an unbiased reviewer, yes?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: anxiousmofo</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3446</link>
		<dc:creator>anxiousmofo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 04:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3446</guid>
		<description>Nicely done, Bad. I do not have the patience to deal with creationism that you do, and appreciate you sitting through the movie to take one for the team. I will not be seeing the movie, as I would probably be kicked out of the theater for standing up and yelling at the screen. (That, to the bemusement of my wife, was my reaction to watching Ben Stein's interview on TBN, the one in which he said that science leads to killing people.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely done, Bad. I do not have the patience to deal with creationism that you do, and appreciate you sitting through the movie to take one for the team. I will not be seeing the movie, as I would probably be kicked out of the theater for standing up and yelling at the screen. (That, to the bemusement of my wife, was my reaction to watching Ben Stein&#8217;s interview on TBN, the one in which he said that science leads to killing people.)</p>
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		<title>By: Murder of Ravens</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3406</link>
		<dc:creator>Murder of Ravens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 03:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3406</guid>
		<description>Well, I'll bet you feel a whole lot better having gotten all of THAT out of your system!  You just saved me ten bucks.  Thanks.

;&#62;)

-smith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ll bet you feel a whole lot better having gotten all of THAT out of your system!  You just saved me ten bucks.  Thanks.</p>
<p>;&gt;)</p>
<p>-smith</p>
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		<title>By: Pauli Ojala</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3357</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauli Ojala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3357</guid>
		<description>Stein is under heavy attack for 'exaggerating' the influence of evolutionism behind Nazism and Stalinism (super evolution of Lysenkoism in the Soviet Russia). But the monstrous Haeckelian type of vulgar evolutionism drove not only the 'Politics-is-applied-biology' Nazi takeover in the continental Europe, but even the nationalistic collision at the World War I.

It was Charles Darwin himself, who praised and raised the monstrous Haeckel with his still recycled fraud embryo drawings in the spotlight as the greatest authority in the field of human evolution, even in the preface to his Descent of man in 1871.

Darwin did not apply his revolutionary theory to the human beings until his Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex in 1871. This was after the ambitious Haeckel had firmly stepped in the print, and the old Darwin paid hommage in his introduction:
"The conclusion that man is the co-descendant with other species… is not in any degree new… maintained by several eminent naturalists and philosophers… and especially by Häckel. This last naturalist, besides his great work
'Generelle Morphologie' (1866), has recently (1868, with a second edit. in 1870), published his 'Natürliche Schöpfungsgeschichte,' in which he fully discusses the genealogy of man. If this work had appeared before my essay
had been written, I should probably never have completed it. Almost all the conclusions at which I have arrived I find confirmed by this naturalist, whose knowledge on many points is much fuller than mine."

I quote from my conference posters and articles defended and published in the field of bioethics and history of biology (and underline them a bit):
http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Asian_Bioethics.pdf 
http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Haeckelianlegacy_ABC5.pdf

Race biological reason was not only rhetoric, it was scientific. There is evidence, that In Ukraine and Baltic countries, the people wellcomed the German troops as redeemers. These illusions evaporated soon, when the SS (Schutzstaffel) and civilian administration followed the field-army. Hitler did not even try to separate the Russian people from the Soviet government. The Eastern Europeans Slavic people were born "slaves", indeed. For Hitler, they were "Untermenschen" (Bullock 1958 pp- 423-5). The ethymology for the Greek "barbaros" was in their uncomprehensible tongue, the word was onomatopoetic.

BUT marriage laws were once erected not only in the Nazi Germany but also in the multicultural states of America upon the speculation that the mulatto was a relatively sterile and shortlived hybrid. The absence of blood transfusion between "white" and "colored races" was self evident (Hailer 1963, p. 52).

The first law on sterilization in US had been established in 1907 in Indiana, and 23 similar laws had been passed in 15 States and sterilization was practiced in 124 institutions in 1921 (Mattila 1996; Hietala 1985 p. 133; these were the times of IQ-tests under Gould's scrutiny in his Mismeasure of Man 1981). By 1931 thirty states had passed sterization laws in the US (Reilly 1991, p. 87).

So the American laws were pioneering endeavours. In Europe Denmark passed the first sterilization legislation in Europe (1929). Denmark was followed by Switzerland, Germany that had felt to the hands of Hitler and Gobineu, and other Nordic countries: Norway (1934), Sweden (1935), Finland (1935), and Iceland (1938) (Haller 1963, pp 21-57; 135-9; Proctor 1988, p. 97; Reilly 1991, p. 109). Seldom is it mentioned in the popular Finnish media, that the first outright race biological institution in the world was not established in Germany but in 1921 in Uppsala, Sweden (Hietala 1985, pp. 109). (I am not aware of the ethymology of the 'Up' of the ancient city from Plinius' Ultima Thule, however.) In 1907 the Society for Racial Hygiene in Germany had changed its name to the Internationale Gesellschaft für Rassenhygiene, and in 1910 Swedish Society for Eugenics (Sällskap för Rashygien) had become its first foreign affiliate (Proctor 1988, p. 17).

Hitler's formulation of the differences between the human races was affected by the brilliant sky-blue eyed Ernst Haeckel (Gasman 1971, p. xxii), praised and raised by Darwin. At the top of the unilinear progression were usually the "Nordics", a tall race of blue-eyed blonds. Haeckel's position on the Jewish question was assimilation, not yet an open elimination. But was it different only in degree, rather than kind?

In 1917 the immigration of "defective" groups was forbidden even in the United States by a law. In 1921 the European immigration was diminished to 3% based on the 1910 census.
Eventually, in the strategical year of 1924 the finest hour of eugenics had come and the fatal law was passed by Congress. It diminished immigration to 2% of the foreign-born from each country based on the 1890 census in order to preserve the "nordic" balance in population, and was hold through World War II until 1965 (Hietala 1985, p. 132).

Richard Lewontin writes:“The leading American idealogue of the innate mental inferiority of the working class was, however, H.H. Goddard, a pioneer of the mental testing movement, the discoverer of the Kallikak family,
and the administrant of IQ-tests to immigrants that found 83 % of the Jews, 80% of the Hungarians, 79% of the Italians, and 87% of the the Russians to be feebleminded.” (1977, p. 13.) Finnish emmigrants put the cross on the box reserved for the "yellow" group (Kemiläinen 1993, p. 1930), until 1965.

Germany was the most scientifically and culturally advanced nation of the world upon opening the riddles at the close of the nineteenth century, and in 1933 the German people had not lived normal life for twenty years. And so Adolf Hitler did not need his revolution. He did not have to break the laws in Haeckel's country, in principle, but to constitute them.

Today, developmental biologists are anticipating legislation of laws that would define the do’s and dont’s. The legislation should not distract individual researchers from their personal awareness of responsibility. A permissive law merely defines the ethical minimum. The lesson is that a law is no substitute for morals and that dissidents should not be intimidated.

I am suspicious over the burial of the Kampf (Struggle). The idea of competition is innate in the modern society. It is the the opposite view in a 180 degree angle to the Judaeo-Christian ideal of agapee, that I personally cheriss. The latter sees free giving, altruism, benevolence and self sacrificing love as the beginning, motivation, and sustainer of the reality.

pauli.ojala@gmail.com
Biochemist, drop-out (Master of Sciing)
http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Expelled-ID.htm

PS. Here's the final chapter scanned from an evolutionist scholar D. Gasman from his The Scientific Origins of National Socialism: Social Darwinism in Ernst Haeckel and the German Monist League (chapter 7, Gasman 1971) 
http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Gasman.htm
I emphasize that Daniel Gasman is NOT an IDist or Idealist of any kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stein is under heavy attack for &#8216;exaggerating&#8217; the influence of evolutionism behind Nazism and Stalinism (super evolution of Lysenkoism in the Soviet Russia). But the monstrous Haeckelian type of vulgar evolutionism drove not only the &#8216;Politics-is-applied-biology&#8217; Nazi takeover in the continental Europe, but even the nationalistic collision at the World War I.</p>
<p>It was Charles Darwin himself, who praised and raised the monstrous Haeckel with his still recycled fraud embryo drawings in the spotlight as the greatest authority in the field of human evolution, even in the preface to his Descent of man in 1871.</p>
<p>Darwin did not apply his revolutionary theory to the human beings until his Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex in 1871. This was after the ambitious Haeckel had firmly stepped in the print, and the old Darwin paid hommage in his introduction:<br />
&#8220;The conclusion that man is the co-descendant with other species… is not in any degree new… maintained by several eminent naturalists and philosophers… and especially by Häckel. This last naturalist, besides his great work<br />
&#8216;Generelle Morphologie&#8217; (1866), has recently (1868, with a second edit. in 1870), published his &#8216;Natürliche Schöpfungsgeschichte,&#8217; in which he fully discusses the genealogy of man. If this work had appeared before my essay<br />
had been written, I should probably never have completed it. Almost all the conclusions at which I have arrived I find confirmed by this naturalist, whose knowledge on many points is much fuller than mine.&#8221;</p>
<p>I quote from my conference posters and articles defended and published in the field of bioethics and history of biology (and underline them a bit):<br />
<a href="http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Asian_Bioethics.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Asian_Bioethics.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Haeckelianlegacy_ABC5.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Haeckelianlegacy_ABC5.pdf</a></p>
<p>Race biological reason was not only rhetoric, it was scientific. There is evidence, that In Ukraine and Baltic countries, the people wellcomed the German troops as redeemers. These illusions evaporated soon, when the SS (Schutzstaffel) and civilian administration followed the field-army. Hitler did not even try to separate the Russian people from the Soviet government. The Eastern Europeans Slavic people were born &#8220;slaves&#8221;, indeed. For Hitler, they were &#8220;Untermenschen&#8221; (Bullock 1958 pp- 423-5). The ethymology for the Greek &#8220;barbaros&#8221; was in their uncomprehensible tongue, the word was onomatopoetic.</p>
<p>BUT marriage laws were once erected not only in the Nazi Germany but also in the multicultural states of America upon the speculation that the mulatto was a relatively sterile and shortlived hybrid. The absence of blood transfusion between &#8220;white&#8221; and &#8220;colored races&#8221; was self evident (Hailer 1963, p. 52).</p>
<p>The first law on sterilization in US had been established in 1907 in Indiana, and 23 similar laws had been passed in 15 States and sterilization was practiced in 124 institutions in 1921 (Mattila 1996; Hietala 1985 p. 133; these were the times of IQ-tests under Gould&#8217;s scrutiny in his Mismeasure of Man 1981). By 1931 thirty states had passed sterization laws in the US (Reilly 1991, p. 87).</p>
<p>So the American laws were pioneering endeavours. In Europe Denmark passed the first sterilization legislation in Europe (1929). Denmark was followed by Switzerland, Germany that had felt to the hands of Hitler and Gobineu, and other Nordic countries: Norway (1934), Sweden (1935), Finland (1935), and Iceland (1938) (Haller 1963, pp 21-57; 135-9; Proctor 1988, p. 97; Reilly 1991, p. 109). Seldom is it mentioned in the popular Finnish media, that the first outright race biological institution in the world was not established in Germany but in 1921 in Uppsala, Sweden (Hietala 1985, pp. 109). (I am not aware of the ethymology of the &#8216;Up&#8217; of the ancient city from Plinius&#8217; Ultima Thule, however.) In 1907 the Society for Racial Hygiene in Germany had changed its name to the Internationale Gesellschaft für Rassenhygiene, and in 1910 Swedish Society for Eugenics (Sällskap för Rashygien) had become its first foreign affiliate (Proctor 1988, p. 17).</p>
<p>Hitler&#8217;s formulation of the differences between the human races was affected by the brilliant sky-blue eyed Ernst Haeckel (Gasman 1971, p. xxii), praised and raised by Darwin. At the top of the unilinear progression were usually the &#8220;Nordics&#8221;, a tall race of blue-eyed blonds. Haeckel&#8217;s position on the Jewish question was assimilation, not yet an open elimination. But was it different only in degree, rather than kind?</p>
<p>In 1917 the immigration of &#8220;defective&#8221; groups was forbidden even in the United States by a law. In 1921 the European immigration was diminished to 3% based on the 1910 census.<br />
Eventually, in the strategical year of 1924 the finest hour of eugenics had come and the fatal law was passed by Congress. It diminished immigration to 2% of the foreign-born from each country based on the 1890 census in order to preserve the &#8220;nordic&#8221; balance in population, and was hold through World War II until 1965 (Hietala 1985, p. 132).</p>
<p>Richard Lewontin writes:“The leading American idealogue of the innate mental inferiority of the working class was, however, H.H. Goddard, a pioneer of the mental testing movement, the discoverer of the Kallikak family,<br />
and the administrant of IQ-tests to immigrants that found 83 % of the Jews, 80% of the Hungarians, 79% of the Italians, and 87% of the the Russians to be feebleminded.” (1977, p. 13.) Finnish emmigrants put the cross on the box reserved for the &#8220;yellow&#8221; group (Kemiläinen 1993, p. 1930), until 1965.</p>
<p>Germany was the most scientifically and culturally advanced nation of the world upon opening the riddles at the close of the nineteenth century, and in 1933 the German people had not lived normal life for twenty years. And so Adolf Hitler did not need his revolution. He did not have to break the laws in Haeckel&#8217;s country, in principle, but to constitute them.</p>
<p>Today, developmental biologists are anticipating legislation of laws that would define the do’s and dont’s. The legislation should not distract individual researchers from their personal awareness of responsibility. A permissive law merely defines the ethical minimum. The lesson is that a law is no substitute for morals and that dissidents should not be intimidated.</p>
<p>I am suspicious over the burial of the Kampf (Struggle). The idea of competition is innate in the modern society. It is the the opposite view in a 180 degree angle to the Judaeo-Christian ideal of agapee, that I personally cheriss. The latter sees free giving, altruism, benevolence and self sacrificing love as the beginning, motivation, and sustainer of the reality.</p>
<p><a href="mailto:pauli.ojala@gmail.com">pauli.ojala@gmail.com</a><br />
Biochemist, drop-out (Master of Sciing)<br />
<a href="http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Expelled-ID.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Expelled-ID.htm</a></p>
<p>PS. Here&#8217;s the final chapter scanned from an evolutionist scholar D. Gasman from his The Scientific Origins of National Socialism: Social Darwinism in Ernst Haeckel and the German Monist League (chapter 7, Gasman 1971)<br />
<a href="http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Gasman.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Gasman.htm</a><br />
I emphasize that Daniel Gasman is NOT an IDist or Idealist of any kind.</p>
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		<title>By: Things they’d have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City XII &#171; Five Public Opinions</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3341</link>
		<dc:creator>Things they’d have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City XII &#171; Five Public Opinions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3341</guid>
		<description>[...] you need to know about Expelled (short of watching it) you can find at The Bad Idea Blog. If you&#8217;re still not satisfied, visit Expelled [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you need to know about Expelled (short of watching it) you can find at The Bad Idea Blog. If you&#8217;re still not satisfied, visit Expelled [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bad</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3337</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3337</guid>
		<description>Sorry, been pretty busy and still catching up.  I'll try to get to it tomorrow.  I did get the emails, and hopefully succesfully made the corrections mentioned.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, been pretty busy and still catching up.  I&#8217;ll try to get to it tomorrow.  I did get the emails, and hopefully succesfully made the corrections mentioned.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Rwinindy</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3336</link>
		<dc:creator>Rwinindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3336</guid>
		<description>Bad,  You have not responded to my "holy hand" post.

31.	Rwinindy Says: 
April 22, 2008 at 10:58 pm 
Bad, Thanks again for responding but you didn’t commment on the testing. I understand what you are saying about DNA but what I am saying is that it is more complex than just putting chemicals together. We don’t know why certain chemicals are used in it’s construction and so forth. Every time we think we know it all we discover more. As we discover more hows and whys we can construct life forms using those “plans”. This is called testing the plans to see if something can be produced.
You can’t imply there is not an itelligent designer and then hang on to that implication after a life form is purportedly created. It was only a mattter of time until something would be assumed to be created by man using discovered info.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bad,  You have not responded to my &#8220;holy hand&#8221; post.</p>
<p>31.	Rwinindy Says:<br />
April 22, 2008 at 10:58 pm<br />
Bad, Thanks again for responding but you didn’t commment on the testing. I understand what you are saying about DNA but what I am saying is that it is more complex than just putting chemicals together. We don’t know why certain chemicals are used in it’s construction and so forth. Every time we think we know it all we discover more. As we discover more hows and whys we can construct life forms using those “plans”. This is called testing the plans to see if something can be produced.<br />
You can’t imply there is not an itelligent designer and then hang on to that implication after a life form is purportedly created. It was only a mattter of time until something would be assumed to be created by man using discovered info.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3334</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3334</guid>
		<description>OK, well then I won't care---since in fact I don't care---about this piece of diatribe, and won't give Ben Stein My Money.  I'll just read your stuff on his stuff.  I'm sure yours is more interesting anyway.  

(Although I have to wonder, where IS he coming from; he obviously believes something strongly, and wishes to act on his belief.)

Oh well.  Life's just entertainment, and then we die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, well then I won&#8217;t care&#8212;since in fact I don&#8217;t care&#8212;about this piece of diatribe, and won&#8217;t give Ben Stein My Money.  I&#8217;ll just read your stuff on his stuff.  I&#8217;m sure yours is more interesting anyway.  </p>
<p>(Although I have to wonder, where IS he coming from; he obviously believes something strongly, and wishes to act on his belief.)</p>
<p>Oh well.  Life&#8217;s just entertainment, and then we die.</p>
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		<title>By: Troy Britain</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3333</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy Britain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3333</guid>
		<description>Hi Bad,

I sent you a couple e-mails, did you receive them?

Sent to: bbadidea (at-sign) gmail period com 

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bad,</p>
<p>I sent you a couple e-mails, did you receive them?</p>
<p>Sent to: bbadidea (at-sign) gmail period com </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Bad</title>
		<link>http://badidea.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/finally-my-own-expelled-review-extravaganza/#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badidea.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-3331</guid>
		<description>Hugo: So Bad, should I see this thing before I read your reviews of it, or afterward, or not at all?

My basic recommendation for those that aren't interested in it as film. but only as part of the larger debate, is "not at all."  You don't need to pay 10$ to see a recitation of ID ideas that are presented better elsewhere, for free.  The "Expelled" challenge is just silly.  If you want to learn about ID from its supporters, go read Behe's book.  Go read the Discovery Institutes's website.  

I don't think it really matters when you read reviews either.  I read plenty before seeing it, and I'm not sure it made much difference as to how I saw the final product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo: So Bad, should I see this thing before I read your reviews of it, or afterward, or not at all?</p>
<p>My basic recommendation for those that aren&#8217;t interested in it as film. but only as part of the larger debate, is &#8220;not at all.&#8221;  You don&#8217;t need to pay 10$ to see a recitation of ID ideas that are presented better elsewhere, for free.  The &#8220;Expelled&#8221; challenge is just silly.  If you want to learn about ID from its supporters, go read Behe&#8217;s book.  Go read the Discovery Institutes&#8217;s website.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it really matters when you read reviews either.  I read plenty before seeing it, and I&#8217;m not sure it made much difference as to how I saw the final product.</p>
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